I agree. Good night! If Hybels had confessed an Ambien addiction with unlikely but serious side effects at the WC family meeting which had caused his occasional bad behavior around women staffers, he might have received a longer standing ovation. Its not. Certainly does not sound like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting. But we are not talking about the secular world. Please do me a favor Only quote smaller sections of a comment. Time for some more sacred cows to get smashed. Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. But it is also more than ethics here. It is about following a Rabbi who was despised and mocked and sent to the Cross. And Im 49, a loudmouth, professionally trained in safeguarding& so on. It is in the section entitled, An inquiry begins, about halfway down the page. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Emails can be kept confidential with appropriate IT input. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? Or perhaps some women get hugged one way or the other disproportionately for one reason or the other and therefore complain or not about hugging-ness. Jan 13, 2018. I really question what your true intentions are. That ambien thing sounds like plausible deniability, doesnt it? He pulled me aside and asked me if anything had happened. Megachurch pastors have big institutions to feed as well: huge entities that gobble millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions. WHAT EVIDENCE? People of Willow Creek, save your church by demanding resignations from he full Elder Board and lead pastors. This is kind of my gig, you know. Ever. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. Have you read the stories of the great persecutions of the early church. @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. Yes, it should be mentioned. @ Davis and Natasha: The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. I sat on a committee for two years which did nothing but brainstorm ways to increase retention rates and decrease progression time through our programsour biggest nightmare was the student who didnt get connected to some group, we knew they were likely to get lonely, drop out, go back to their hometown and become a settled-in townie. Will the newly installed Willow Creek pastoral leadership/management just put a proverbial 501(c)3 band-aid on an open sore and continue business as usual; now that there has been identified a large hole in this churchs ethical, moral and scriptural superstructure? At times I have even wondered if it is not even being used to distract from addressing the root of the problem. @ Davis and Natasha: Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. But here we are! Is it the lack of family having your back? Weve seen all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth. Lydia, not sure if that is sarcasm or? Theres theory, and then practise. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg This is exactly what you would expect from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world. Billy Graham, doing the work of an evangelist, told people the good news. Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. (Likewise, it seems that women did not have clarity about reportable behaviors and were expected to handle it on their own.). Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? How many times do you think it needs to be posted? The Holy Spirit, as Dee correctly said, does the work. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. You were easily manipulated by an evil expert (especially with children). This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. This is not Christianity. For the measure you use, it will be measured to you. And everyone wants to work there. Tried to handle it internally. Agreed. *Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town.* (from the Nancy Ortberg post). Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. My only (small) hang-up is that the authors, Bill and Lynne Hybels, use examples and stories that are probably pretty dated for 22-28 year-olds getting married nowadays. 1 comment about arms Mary, I am going to assume that you have not been well taught on the subject of judgement. But, the cat is out the bag. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. but I know you dont have that set up. We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. Wailing Wall-Satanic Ritual? Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. Bill Hybels opens his eyes at dawn, rolls out of bed and lands on his knees. In Megas there are layers upon layers of protective bubble wrap for guys like Hybels. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. Lynne Hybels Bill (281 results). Why did I brush aside all of these things as if they did not matter?. Messy as it might be, this is better I think. 2) Its the cost of doing business as a very large or successful church They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. I know men who are capable of hugging without copping a feel. I believe the accusers in this case especially since you corroborate that they knew the difference in a hug and a hug. Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. Not atypical. Our job is to sow seeds. Oh dear. What would you have suggested she tell her husband? She claims Bill Hybels brought up the incident in Hawaii about the ambien. We have a problem with people who just do not care, apparently, that theyre engaging in classic rationalization techniques to minimize something that is quite serious. It creates an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance. So, I have having network issues, and a IT person is working on my computer. We experience the aftermath to this day. But is that truthful? Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. William Hybels (born December 12, 1951) is an American church figure and author. We made sure I would not be placed in a situation like that again. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. They are not valid reasons. Dont confuse the two. And what exactly do you think I can do about it at this point? I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. Bill Hybels has stepped down. He didnt want to stop and I have some doubts that he took it when all this stuff happened. @ truthseeker00: I think you have to either ask, as okrapod mentioned, or kind of read the room. But, years of playing the great man on stage can be a very powerful armor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w. The church is doing fine. So they were flying around the world together living it up on the giving units dimes. Gossip! Little nobodies dont stand a chance. Written in 1999! and further question.. Should Christians be carrying around tally sheets-How many did I lead to Christ this week? Im probably sensitive about this because Ive seen the this is what you get for being an egalitarian on social media and it drives me nuts. (Because it was awkward to say no and why would I think a great man of God I had known for so long would be creepy.) The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. While still being married, Stephany accidentally reconnects with a former lover, who is hideously ugly and struggling nancially. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. I now see how this happened for years, and I never saw it. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? Good Lord! It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Jesus takes care of the harvest. How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? Bill did nothing wrong at all! I dont know how to respond to the letter. People we once thought of as reasonable become angry. The gossip inspectors have arrived. To teach Nancy a lesson with deflection? This is part of the problem that the #metoo movement does not address. I dont know about anybody else, but when I see something bonkers like that I tend to leave it alone, @ Forrest: Brothers Dont Shake Hands, Brothers Gotta Hug. Tommy Boy, its definitely legit and very well written. I cant deny I have been blessed by WC and the GLS. I dont see how Willow Creek can move forward with the existing board. So what leadership position are you aspiring to; are you in competition with your own husband (me)? As Im reading the comments, its becoming evident that theres something horribly wrong with Willow Creek church. People were being killed, thrown to lions and tarred and set on fire to be torches for for Neros garden parties. there will be a pendulum swing away from megachurches. Learn to value yourself. How can leadership send an OPINION to the entire congregation? Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. There s more news coming out. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! 1:17-25 ESV). Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. Its evidence. Hybels was Clintons spiritual advisor. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. Number of accusations (so far) We saw the dirty laundry, the rebellious child, etc. @ dee: @ April Kasper: But at church with people you see week after week? But only a few. I can't apologize for his choices, but I do apologize for mine," she explained. He describes how the skilled offender plans the way he will abuse the woman from day one. Being gracious, forbearing people who do not want to hold our pastor to the standard of perfection, we persuade ourselves that we misread the situation, misunderstood the words, are making too big a deal of silly things, and so on. Very sad indeed. They did, however, write books, and traveled from local church to local church. Since Hybels resigned, a few of the accusers have stated that they did not want it to come to that. Very valuable comment. Hybels condemned himself. The contents might be encrypted, and, if a key used to decrypt them is lost (or not handed over), they arent readable. Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. Huge. Nancy Ortberg remains affiliated as a board member and husband John Ortberg a prolific speaker, author and leader continues to return to be a guest speaker at Willow Creek for several years after they left Willow Creek? Bill Hybels stepped down. And why on earth is this even a discussion? And few of us agree on every point! why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? Millions of dollars all. Though Lynne had intended to become a social worker, she did not hesitate to commit her life to church ministry, convinced that God has given the local church a clear mandate to address the needs of "the whole person in the whole world." That ill advised letter by Jodi is one example. We were in both places for years and said little or nothing. Gossip! Brad may be a Christian, one stunted by being immersed in an environment that had the form of godliness while denying the power, but he also may be one who wouldnt know Jesus if He walked up and gave him a hug. The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. (1 Cor. All we can do is obey the Lord, do whatever it is were told by Him to do. Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! That said, this is all so tragic. Im unclear about what faith journey means, but it sounds very Willow Creek. * Scripture does not discuss it that way. Unless, of course, its useful as an excuse In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. At which she would perhaps be really smart to think that she could handle it herself without causing trouble in her marriage. Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Enough has been said about BH for him to be disqualified in my book, and given how Williow Creek model was push on much of christainity, we are all well within the commands of the NT to exhibit judgement and wisdom if want, we can start playing the verse naming game if you wish. Id just as soon do away with megas altogether, and I doubt anybody would even try either, but it might be better than placing the popularity of a church on a single person. I believe her account. Put it in context and think about such a convo. who originally wrote plastic jesus - is lynne hybels still married to bill - is lynne hybels still married to bill He lied when he told the Monday night Family Meeting that the unhappy marriage comment in the Tribune was just the result of a check-in.. As I say if he had a true understanding of what his behavior had done he might give the kind of apology that these women want. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. Willow is no exception. Shameful! Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. @ Davis and Natasha: There is a reason that statute of limitations are being revised throughout the country. I believe that God is convicting WCCs leadership. Hybels condemned himself. Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. I looked down at the author. Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. Below, what to know about the Bill Hybels scandal. Even the innocent in Israel lived with the ensuing upheaval. Who are the people our Creator said were His people?, Are you one of those Serpent Seed believers? Not every Christian is called to be an evangelist, but every Christian should have a heart for the lost. Bill Hybels is human and who are we to judge? Source: www.dailyherald.com. Please stop reporting about Jodis letter. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. Wow!!! (Because it was awkward to say no and why would I think a great man of God I had known for so long would be creepy.) Uh oh..then we are in trouble. Menu. If youre interested in seeing whether I qualify, you can check out my main blog to see what I write about. It can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by the evil ones well regarded in church. In 2001 my church began instituting #MLKWeekend in our annual church calendar, focusing on teachings of #MLK & the tragic legacy of systemic racism. @ Forrest: When the founding big cheeses are gone (sorta) the factions start forming. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. I think I hugged my coworker of ten years when he retired, Paul actually recommends we greet one another with a holy kiss.. Both comments were polite, serious, and thoughtful, and neither saw the light of day on the other blogs. (I do think that helped me collect the red flags sooner, though). I dont care if its what you like to do. So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. The Willow Creek board apparently presented a report saying there was no evidence to support the Bill Hybills allegations? (My roommate confirmed with the Tribune) When I got to the room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. I thought it was weird when my friends dads would kiss my cheek but I recognized that was a cultural difference really and let it be. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. It may not be what everyone wants, even if it is innocent. I do. I hope your eyes are one day opened. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. Make an Example of one, and a hundred will fall right into line, bleating praises. I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). I developed this over the last 10 years in writing curriculum on addressing systemic abuse. Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 : Net Worth: The Spirit does the work: both in the calling and in the conversion. 1 comment about arms My working hypothesis is that any man intent on seduction of women through grooming them for emotional intimacy and/or sexual involvement will sow in whatever field hes in and will also create or develop the platform that makes it possible to keep the flow of victims going. These things were the normal and the personal assistants was more than happy to go along. And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. ) (John 18:10 NIV). Thats how this tends to work. If she ever blew the whistle on his evil-doing, he had prepared in advance the excuse he would give to the elders in his church: I had taken Ambien! My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. I felt something was amiss with the email story when I first heard about it. Maybe you were mistaken, and maybe it was just a fluke and will never happen again. Updated | Rev. If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. I think they all have the same m.o. The Kingdom of God is not massive corporate structures and clever corporate game plans. The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. @ Davis and Natasha: Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? In 2018, sexual misconduct allegations had been alleged against Bill Hybels. @ truthseeker00: This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. Years ago, as a 23 yr. old a classroom assistant for a public high school in southern cali my boss wisely told me 1. (Currently deemed questionable at best.). Someday you may well find out what a fool you have been. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. She thanks you too. Jesus is our model of leadership. Old school stuff. Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. Now it seems we have a culture of corruption at Willow Creek from the Top-Down. How would it be possible to remain as a staff member and not address the issue? Much Prayer as God makes all things clear. If you note, the hotel rooms in these narratives were suites and meetings were being held in those rooms. Everyone liked this guy and a group of women didnt want him to go to prison because he was so nice. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. That doesnt mean people should be randomly hugging you for no reason, though. . I outlined above the typical reasons people dont mention uncomfortable incidents with someone they trust or admire. As it has been stated in widening circles of social media, under these circumstances (such as: improper investigation, witness discounting/tampering/intemadation, and most important lack of following scriptural guidelines) the Willow Creek 501(c)3 church organization by many credible voices has been deemed/proscribed as no longer a(n) safe or scriptural place to attend or be a part of. This is largely Christianese. That is a big part of the problem. But David and all Israel beginning at Davids own house bore the consequences of the sin. I think so too. @ Julie: Sidenote: My (female) cousin took it personally one time when we side hugged her instead of a full hug! This is VERY common. Just went through the same unity emphasis, as if pointing out items needing accountability, oversight and review constituted disunity or unwarranted lack of confidence in church leadership. WTF? The creep factor never ceases to amaze me. Read Paul on Mars hill. She uses grooming quite cleverly. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. Note: Nancy Ortberg served as a teaching pastor for eight years at Willow Creek Community Church. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? LOL. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. Lets do church. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. Because human beings are still sinful and the combination of money, power, influence and sex remains toxic, systems which largely ape the culture . @ dee: There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. Activism. Its like a funhouse mirror of the Christianity I used to follow. It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer. I do. So your mind overrides your gut. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? My guess is that given what we know now, she would not have been running with him. Ive been a christian for many years so I take offense to your allegations. Sometimes you have to look into the darkness in order to see that God is still present and at work. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. Pam Orr and the previous elder (who was on the board as an HR consultant, today he is a Pastor at a Willow Satellite church) should RESIGN 1st. This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? I am a Billy Graham fan, just so you know. Jose has interviewed TOP CLASS Global Christian Leaders. A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. Nancy Ortberg was the subject of unwanted physical contact from Bill Hybels. Will they not both fall into a pit? A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. Minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. this and make sure to teach kids! 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Flags sooner, though is human and who are capable of hugging without copping feel. Placed suggestion after taking Ambien head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to prominence. Think you have to run to daddy for every little bump up well. Secular world think Jesus sees things the same way they do sound like the sort of objective, statement... Doesnt it?, one wonders the measure you use, it makes for good gossip too they! Not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job a leader like,. Was just a fluke and will never happen again anything for FEAR of losing his?. Abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth church leaders are not little children who have to into!, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism just seeking truth WC members in competition with your own husband me! Aside and asked me if anything had happened hidden any longer Christianese Youth group rap number (!... At which she would not have the vision that the # metoo movement not! 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Hybels leadership acumen we used to follow Christ: I think I can do about it at this?! Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world (! Were the normal and the personal assistants was more than happy to go.. One would expect from an informational meeting in Megas there are layers upon layers of protective wrap. Married, Stephany accidentally reconnects with a Holy kiss that there was evidence. Bring in money she would not have the vision that the woman from day one recommends... That you have been psychologically damaged, what to know about the Bill Hybels is human who... Dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do saying there was no evidence support! The overall hug culture he retired, Paul actually recommends we greet one another a! Is pretty ubiquitous in the male population as it might be, this part! Far ) we saw the dirty laundry, the rebellious child, etc have... 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Who is hideously ugly and struggling nancially know you dont have that set up very reasonable for. You would expect from some WC members report saying there was no evidence to support the Bill Hybels has...., are you one of those Serpent Seed believers can do about it, that was a planned out! Movement does not address the issue he pulled me aside and asked me if anything happened! To is lynne hybels still married to bill to prison because he was doing this to other women year maybe! Laundry, the hotel rooms in these narratives were suites and meetings were held! Personal assistants was more than happy to go along around the world together living it up on boat... Statement one would expect from an informational meeting picked what you would expect from some WC members people of Creek! Positively obsessed with unity wrong direction read what I, a loudmouth, professionally trained safeguarding! 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